Lord of the Rings Fanatics Plaza

By the way, the Internet Archive pages are from this Publication.

Hello Drifa

Always a pleasure to communicate - and I am pleased you take the time and trouble to read my posts.

Yes, the word ‘Hobbit’ did exist prior to Tolkien’s claim of inventing it. But there is no evidence he read it in the list within The Denham Tracts.

I am in two minds here.

Because Tolkien also claimed that he didn’t recall how he came across the name of the hero of the story (Letter #25). Yet later, he told us that the ‘Bag’ of ‘Baggins’ came from his aunt Jane Neave’s farm (Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings).

So Tolkien didn’t tell the truth.

Nevertheless, I am prepared to give the Professor the benefit of the doubt with ‘Hobbit’ - and that is why my research has taken such an investigating path.

Hello Aiks

The word Hobbit can surely be an infliction of the mind and not being sourced from somewhere else.

I agree - it could be an invention purely from his own mind, but we must remember that as a philologist Tolkien respected and actively used the science of etymology. I think that it’s worthwhile trying to uncover how he subcreated his own etymology behind the word ‘Hobbit’ - which must, in my opinion, have had some real-world sources behind its construction.




… a continued theme from my previous post



Jack in the Background

Needless to say I cannot for sure prove that fellow researchers have all been barking up the wrong tree. But doesn’t it strike you, given all the accumulated ‘parody material’ presented in my research to date, that there might have been far more to Tolkien’s humorous side than previously understood.

Tom Shippey is convinced that apart from the personal aspect*, ‘Baggins’ has a duality in both possessing a funny side and a philological one. The funny part being that the name in Lancashire and Yorkshire dialect closely resembles terminology for ‘a meal’ – which hobbits relish partaking in. While the philological one is the word ‘Bagging’ appearing in Walter Haigh’s A New Glossary of the Dialect of the Huddersfield District, a publication which Tolkien contributed to the Foreword.










To my knowledge it has never been brought up that ‘gins’ might have been added to the ‘Bag’ (of Jane Neave’s Bag End) simply because:

“Let no man hereafter despise the Higgins’s, Wiggins’s or any other names ending in gins, they can prove as ancient a descent as any with a Norman prefix.”

– The Gentleman’s Magazine, Historical or Miscellaneous Reviews – pg. 300, 1858   (my underlined emphasis)

Or, because Tolkien likely modeled Bilbo** and Frodo*** on the eponymous English hero ‘Jack’. And the only surname Jack (of beanstalk lore) ever possessed was ‘Spriggins’ – where once again we must note the ‘gins’ ending to that name:

“The Story of Jack Spriggins and the Enchanted Bean.”

– Round about our Coal Fire, Chapter IV, 1734

Much though these are important points, really what I am trying to stress is that if Shippey is correct, as far as ‘Baggins’ having both a comic and serious side, then there is every reason to believe the word ‘Hobbit’ was invented no differently!

… to be continued



* Meaning ‘Bag End’, Jane Neave’s farm.
** See thread: ‘Bill, Bert & Tom - Yeah Really!’ - posts of 26 March 2024, 1 April 2024 & 9 April 2024.
*** See thread: ‘Tom Bombadil’ - post of 7 April 2024

Morning Priya! Oh I don't doubt Shippey does have it right with a serious and funny side to the surname of Bilbo. The tale needs a level of humour otherwise it is not to get through for readers, or parents who read it to children. I think this is pretty good argument.

Tom Shippey is convinced that apart from the personal aspect*, ‘Baggins’ has a duality in both possessing a funny side and a philological one. The funny part being that the name in Lancashire and Yorkshire dialect closely resembles terminology for ‘a meal’ – which hobbits relish partaking in. While the philological one is the word ‘Bagging’ appearing in Walter Haigh’s A New Glossary of the Dialect of the Huddersfield District, a publication which Tolkien contributed to the Foreword.

@Priya i had no idea about the -gins suffix - how interesting. Thank you for sharing! I wonder if other Hobbit surnames follow any similar sort of pattern? Took stands out for me, being a single syllable.

Priya wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 2:09 pm Nevertheless, I am prepared to give the Professor the benefit of the doubt with ‘Hobbit’ - and that is why my research has taken such an investigating path.

Yes, of course, I, too, give the Professor the benefit of the doubt. I was amazed to discover that the word existed before his claim to having invented it.

I have discovered some interesting facts regarding the word hobbit and wondered if I could share them here as a continuation of your post?

Hello Drifa

I would be delighted to read the fruits of your research

 Hello Aiks

I am not at all convinced by Shippey’s opinion - apart from his belief that humor was involved. My view, as you have been reading, is that ‘Bilbo’ was plucked from Thomas Dekker’s Match me in London. The humor is that Tolkien constructed a parody out of the play.

But we can agree to disagree.



Hello Silky Gooseness

i had no idea about the -gins suffix - how interesting.

It’s an interesting piece of information. But whether Tolkien knew it - who knows?




… continued from my previous post

Switching gears way from The Hobbit and on to The Lord of the Rings, it seems that Tolkien initially thought of continuing to role Bilbo as an antecedent to Jack of English folklore. As I have already set out (see thread: ‘Bill, Bert & Tom - Yeah Really!’ - posts of 26 March 2024, 1 April 2024 & 9 April 2024), there are plenty of pointers in The Hobbit harking back to the ‘Jack tales’. In the early drafts of The Lord of the Rings there are a few more concerning Farmer Maggot that I haven’t already raised.

Bilbo is described as having to defend himself and his nephew against the ogreish Farmer Maggot and his dog. He kills the animal with a stick, a most unusual action for a hobbit:

“He set a great dog on us, … Bilbo broke its head with that thick stick of his.”

– The Return of the Shadow, A Short Cut to Mushrooms – pg. 296, Note 6, 1988

Such a violent act ties back to two specific Jack tales. One where a magical stick (Jack and his Bargains) is used to apply beatings upon the correct command:

“… ‘Up stick and at it’ …”.

– The Uses of Enchantment, Jack and The Beanstalk – pg. 184, B. Bettelheim, 1989

And another where a giant (who grinds men’s bones in a mill to make bread) has his dog killed by Jack:

“The giant had a favourite dog, … Jack killed the dog, …”.

– More English Fairytales, The Blinded Giant – pg. 86, J. Jacobs, 1894

Ultimately Tolkien abandoned his own akin story-line for an unknown reason. Maybe he thought the link of Bilbo back to Jack would become too obvious. I can’t be absolutely sure, but what I do know is that the storied adventures of Jack – arguably the greatest thief of all time – had migrated all across England, with their source supposedly lying in Cornwall.










But Tolkien might have asked himself how far back in history did that go? Perhaps the initial tale which seeded Jack belonged to prehistory: “long ago in the quiet of the world”? My feeling is that Tolkien could live with a Spanish sounding Bilbo, as being apt for representing Jack, because of: ‘Iberian man’!


… to be continued

Hi Priya! I have been lost in the Internet Archive.
I am sure I am not the first one to come across these. And most likely, they have been discussed somewhere before. What about these entries regarding the mortar/cannon from the Internet Archive? It would suit, "of use for annoying", a mischievous spirit well. I have seen this definition of the Haubitze in a few old etymologies and dictionaries, even Samuel Johnson's A Dictionary of the English Language. The spelling seems to differ. Of course, now it is called a howitzer.


Nathan Bailey's dictionary English-German and German-English. English-Deutsches und Deutsch-Englisches Wörterbuch. Gänzlich umgearb. von Johann Anton Fahrenkrüger
by Bailey, N. (Nathan), d. 1742; Fahrenkrüger, Johann Anton, 1759-1816


An universal etymological English dictionary by Bailey, N. (Nathan), d. 1742



Dictionarium Britannicum: or a more complete universal etymological English dictionary than any extant ...
by Nathan Bailey
Ho'bits [Gunners] a fort of small Mortars, of use for annoying an Enemy at a Distance with small Bombs.

Hello Drifa

Great digging!

This matter was brought up in Mythlore:

https://dc.swosu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cg ... t=mythlore

https://dc.swosu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cg ... t=mythlore

But a decent connection to Tolkien’s invention could not be found.

Please keep up the good effort. I look forward to anything else you might uncover, no matter how tangential it might seem.

Hello Aiks

Did Tolkien initially think of continuing to role Bilbo as an antecedent to Jack of English folklore? I guess that is your approach to this? Yeah, I read and remember more of your research to the Beanstock tale.

Glad to see you absorbing my thoughts.




… theme continued from my previous post


Ancient Inhabitants of Britain

Tolkien was frightfully interested* in the origins of the British people as he confessed to his son, Christopher:

“I read till 11.50, browsing through the packed and to me enthralling pages of Stenton’s Anglo-Saxon England. … I hope one day you’ll be able (if you wish) to delve into this intriguing story of the origins of our peculiar people.”

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #95 – 18 January 1945, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

It was K.W. Humboldt’s ‘Iberian theory’ put forward c. 1817-1821 about racial movements across south-western Europe that caught the imagination in the late 1800’s of some of the brightest historians, anthropologists and ethnologists in Britain. The German’s work pointed British research to conclude the prehistory of their peoples lay in migrations from coastal Mediterranean Europe. Eventually, a body of these immigrants found their way on to British soil through what is now Wales and the far west of England. This most ancient group of settlers were loosely termed ‘Iberians’.

In 1880 Professor W.B. Dawkins described the British Iberians at some length in Chapter IX – The Neolithic inhabitants of Britain of Iberian Race in his well-received publication: Early Man in Britain and his place in the Tertiary Period. Fifteen years later for the Scarborough meeting of The Royal Archaeological Institute of Great Britain he opened with:

“The theory that the Neolithic inhabitants of the British Isles are represented by the Basques and small dark Iberic population of Europe generally, has stood the test of twenty-five years’ criticism, and still holds the field.”

– The Archaeological Journal, Volume 52, Opening Address of the Antiquarian Section – pg. 342, 1895

Investigations into the earliest ancestors of the British had drawn a myriad of respected researchers. The theories and evidence behind Iberian settlers gained great traction, while Humboldt’s groundwork was deservedly acknowledged:

“Since his time the anthropological researches of Broca, Thurnam and Davis, Huxley, Busk, Beddoe, Virchow, Tubino and others have proved the existence in Europe from Neolithic times, of a race, small of stature, which is common among the Basques as well as all over the Iberian peninsula. This Neolithic race has consequently been nicknamed ‘Iberians,’ and it is now common to speak of the ‘Iberian’ ancestry of the people of Britain, recognizing the racial characteristics of ‘Iberians’ in the ‘small swarthy Welshman’, the ‘small dark Highlander,’ and the ‘Black Celts to the West of the Shannon.”

– The Archaeological Journal**, Volume 52, Opening Address of the Antiquarian Section, 1895   (my underlined emphasis)

Even Tolkien’s tutor at the University of Oxford, John Rhys, had involved himself in the overall debate:

“Celtic immigrants into these islands found them without inhabitants, or that they arrived in sufficient force to exterminate them. … it has been supposed that the people whom the Celts found here must have been of Iberian origin, and nearly akin to the ancient inhabitants of Aquitania and the Basques of modern times.”

– Lectures on Welsh Philology, Lecture IV – pg. 190, J. Rhys, 1877









… to be continued




* At the time of delivering the Andrew Lang Lecture of 1939: On Fairy-stories – Tolkien was certainly familiar with E.B. Tylor’s Primitive Culture, 1871 – see Tolkien On Fairy-stories, by Verlyn Flieger and Douglas Anderson (Manuscript A Commentary [182]). Tylor was a leading authority on comparative anthropology in that era. 

** Virtually the same cited statement can be found in the highly prestigious and influential Encyclopaedia Brittanica (under Iberia) in various editions ranging from 1906 to 1962; which certainly encompasses the time span in which The Hobbit developed. 

Hello Aiks

Good stuff

Basque is a language isolate in Europe. Much likely a strain of people that came over West-Africa, passed over the sea in Spain and settled in the Basque region somewhere in the Pleistocene.

So my next post discusses a little more about those Basques - and their migration to Britain.




… continued from my previous post

Now our own Aiks has brought up the point that man existed in Europe way back in history. However, records and evidence from early eras, such as the Mesolithic and Paleolithic, were extremely sparse. Those were ages where the scientific community believed ‘European man’ was a hunter-gatherer. Instead, my gut tells me that for The Hobbit and TLotR Tolkien chose to focus on an era where his forefathers had become more civilized and evolved into farmers with agriculture becoming predominant.










And so depicted for The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, we have the latter stages of The Third Age:

"I imagine the gap [between the Fall of Barad-dûr and our Days] to be about 6000 years”
– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #95 – 18 January 1945, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

As hobbits colonized the Shire some 1600 years earlier; that would put Tolkien’s assigned timeline as roughly 4000 B.C. to 5600 B.C. in our terms. This is the period Tolkien selected to portray the habitation of what he equivalenced as England with hobbits.

But what was happening in our ‘real England’ during that period?

Well, I have strong suspicion Tolkien’s fictional timeline had a considered basis and careful thought behind it. Yes, it was no accident that the selection was made to align with scientific knowledge. For it happens to be coincident with our ‘Iberian Man’* (generally regarded as being from a period in European history between 6000 and 10,000 years ago). And Iberians as inhabitants of what is now coastal Spain and Portugal, eventually made it to Britain.

Indeed, we know the prevailing thought of historians in Tolkien’s time had been:

“… Iberians spread themselves over Spain, Gaul and the British islands as early as 4000 or 5000 B.C. They found everywhere that the Stone Folk had pre-ceded them.”
- Preadamites, Antiquity of Man - pg. 443, Alexander Mitchell, 1886 (my underlined emphasis).

Which, all too coincidentally, is broadly in line with Tolkien’s feigned hobbit-based historical depiction of the Shire!

So perhaps we ought to ponder a little more on the time directly after the King of the Stone Folk (the people of Gondor*) ceded control of the region to be named the Shire - to hobbits. Yes, that period:

“… long ago in the quiet of the world, when there was less noise and more green, …”.
- The Hobbit, An Unexpected Party



… to be continued



* Gondorians were a people who built with stone. ‘Ond’ was etymologically employed because it was one of the two most ancient words known to have been spoken by primitive people of Britain (Letter #324) and meant ‘stone’.

… continued from my previous post

Now Chrysophylax Dives, another Plaza stalwart, has brought up other evidence, in one of his Internet articles, that in Tolkien’s time as an undergraduate - the idea of a small race existing in Britain was bandied about by John Rhys:

“John Rhys, the first Oxford Professor of Celtic, describing some prehistoric dwellings that “appear from the outside like hillocks covered with grass”. To you and me these words of course conjure up an image of the home of Bilbo Baggins. Imagine then my surprise when Rhys went on to argue that the rooms of these prehistoric abodes were “so small that their inmates must have been of very short stature”.
- On the Origin of Hobbits: J.R.R. tolkien's ideas of descent*








Hmm … little beings living in Britain in an era of pre-history. Seems all too much of a coincidence that Tolkien decided his hobbits would be designed to be of small-stature!

Particularly because Tolkien, we know, much preferred:

“… history, true or feigned, …”.
– The Lord of the Rings, Foreword to the Second Edition, October 1966

While admitting that:

“I have … constructed an imaginary time, but kept my feet on my own mother-earth for place.”
– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #211 – 14 October 1958, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981 (Tolkien’s italicized emphasis on ‘time’ and ‘place’)

So though Tolkien’s tales were primarily fiction in a fictional time - nevertheless, it’s quite reasonable to conjecture that he injected a small dose of historical realism. Especially as he freely confessed:

“The Hobbit saga is presented as vera historia, at great pains (which have proved very effective).”

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #281 – 15 December 1965, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981 (my underlined emphasis, vera historia is Latin for ‘true history’ or ‘true story’.



… to be continued


* Internet article (tolkienlibrary.com) - 08.12.13 by Simon J. Cook.

I think we ought not to ignore as well Tolkien’s thoughts on phonoaesthetics - his appreciation for how a word sounds, or feels in the mouth?

Also, what came first, the Baggins or the Bag End joke?

Hello Aiks

I love your input on the ancient world. It was a pleasure reading those links too.


Hello Silky Gooseness

Certainly with his contrived languages (Sindarin and Quenya) - phono-aesthetics played a major role. I’m reluctant to say ‘Bilbo’ or ‘Baggins’ was pleasing to Tolkien’s ear - because I don’t recall that he ever said so. Many of the characters in The Hobbit had names which were selected without any bearing on aural pleasure. Saying that, ‘Bilbo Baggins’ does kind of pleasantly roll off one’s tongue.

In any case, ‘Bag End’ and ‘Baggins’ is a bit of a homophone, don’t you think?

Also, what came first, the Baggins or the Bag End joke?

Surely that’s a chicken or egg type question? So who knows



… continued from my previous post

Now Tolkien intimated that hobbits had become rare in our times, verging perhaps on extinction. What is clear is that, at some stage, regular humans and hobbits must have lived close to each other - even along side each other. Tolkien set the tone that territory was mutually shared. Eventually the big people (i.e. regular humans) appear to have become dominant:

“… they have become rare … They are (or were) a little people … disappear quickly when large stupid folk like you and me come blundering along, …”.
- The Hobbit, An unexpected Party

An allusion to prehistory perhaps? One might perceive, an ever so subtle pointer to a time when short Iberians in England had essentially been displaced by a much larger modern man. These conquerors, as already pointed out, were the Celts - a taller* race than the ‘native’ Iberians.

But for us it is significant that the eminent medievalist and folklorist Sabine Baring-Gould** at least partially agreed that:

“The original population of Cornwall was probably Iberic, of the same primitive race as the dark-haired population of Ireland, before the island was invaded and subjugated by the Celts.”

– Cornwall, History – pg. 97, S. Baring-Gould, 1910



 



Because crucially he helped widen the debate to consider traditions and beliefs about the fairies – the ‘little folk’:

“By the 1880s such leading folklorists as Sabine Baring-Gould, Andrew Lang, Joseph Jacobs, and Sir John Rhys were examining oral testimony on the nature and the customs of the ‘little folk’ and the historical and archaeological remains left by them.”

– Strange and Secret Peoples: Fairies and Victorian Consciousness, On the Origins of Fairies – pg. 33, C.G. Silver, 2000

As such I have a feeling, though I cannot prove it, Baring-Gould influenced Tolkien. For he along with fellow mythologist David MacRitchie*** made a connection of some of the ‘little folk’ being pygmy peoples. According to Baring-Gould, they were the source of small fairy creatures in the myths spread across south-western England:

“Everything comes out of an egg or a seed. And I suspect that there did exist a small people, not so small as these imps are represented, but comparatively small beside the Aryans who lived in all those countries in which the tradition of their existence lingers on.”

– A Book of Folk-lore, Pixies and Brownies – pg. 201, S. Baring-Gould, 1913

It’s quite possible Tolkien took inspiration from little and big people living side-by-side, and much of what Baring-Gould said below about these pygmies essentially being ‘hole-dwellers’:

“They were a people who did not build at all. They lived in caves, or, if in the open, in huts made by bending branches over and covering then with sods of turf. Consequently in folktales they are always represented as either emerging from caverns or from under mounds.”

– A Book of Folk-lore, Pixies and Brownies – pg. 201, S. Baring-Gould, 1913

Not quite tiny – but nevertheless much smaller humans – are these what Tolkien decided his race of Hobbits was going to reflect? Connected loosely through the traditional ‘little folk’ of Cornish folktales, was his invention really a smaller race of migratory man? So maybe Jack of folklore, and thus Bilbo of The Hobbit, was envisaged by Tolkien as one of:

“… Sabine Baring-Gould’s pre-Celtic Iberian Pygmies, …”.

– Strange and Secret Peoples: Fairies and Victorian Consciousness, Changelings in Folklore and Medical Theory – pg. 73, C.G. Silver, 2000


… to be continued

 

* Eminent Romans during the invasion of Britain took note:

“The stature of the Celts seems to have made a great impression upon those with whom they were brought in contact, for Caesar alludes to their mirifica corpora, whilst Strabo, speaking of some of the Coritavi, a tribe who inhabited Lincolnshire, says, ‘To show how tall they were, I saw myself some of their young men at Rome, and they were taller by six inches than any one else in the city.’ ”.

– Life in Early Britain, Chapter V – pgs. 116-117, B. Windle, 1897

** The Professor knew of Sabine Baring-Gould, as he references him as a quote source for one of the words (‘wan’) he was assigned to look into while employed at the New English Dictionary.


*** MacRitchie’s theory became known in the late 19th century by folklorists as ‘Ethnological or Pygmy Theory’. Per Wikipedia, ‘David MacRitchie’:

“Fairy Euhemerism, as developed by MacRitchie attempts to explain the origin of fairies in British folklore and regards fairies as being of a folk-memory of a ‘small-statured pre-Celtic race’ or what Tylor^ theorised as possible folk memories of the aborigines of Britain.”

^ At the time of delivering the Andrew Lang Lecture of 1939: On Fairy-stories – Tolkien was certainly familiar with E.B. Tylor’s Primitive Culture, 1871 – see Tolkien On Fairy-stories, by Verlyn Flieger and Douglas Anderson (Manuscript A Commentary [182]). Tylor was a leading authority on comparative anthropology in that era. 

The interesting difference is that although these little folk described by Baring-Gould are, as you say, hole dwellers, or cave dwellers, they don’t seem to *burrow* or dig in any way; they make use of natural caves, or build rough huts.

Hello Silky Gooseness

they make use of natural caves, or build rough huts.

Your point is taken.

However, Baring-Gould did state that the huts were covered with a layer of turf. As such, the impression would be that these ancient peoples emerged and entered from under the earth. So effectively the habitation could be viewed as a burrow - don’t you think?

Nevertheless, if you aren’t convinced, provided below there is better evidence for ‘burrows’ in a different reference that I am practically sure Tolkien read. It will take a couple of posts to get there - so please bear with me, and you might be better satisfied.

… continued from my post of 14 July 2025


Before I move on to better address Silky Gooseness’s comment about ‘burrows’ - I want to highlight a reference source of some value in this discussion.

One of Tolkien’s early memories was a recollection of one of only two surviving words spoken by pre-Celtic aboriginal inhabitants of the British Isles:

“… nothing of the languages of primitive peoples (before the Celts or Germanic invaders) is now known, except perhaps ond = ‘stone’ (+ one other now forgotten).”

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #324 – 4-5 June 1971, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981 

Tolkien stated that his knowledge was gained:

“When about 8 years old …” from “… a small book (professedly for the young) …”.

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #324 – 4-5 June 1971, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

It is improbable that the book referred to was John Rhys’s Celtic Britain as proposed by Carl Hostetter and Patrick Wynne in Stone Towers per Mythlore Vol. 19, No. 4, Fall 10-15-1993. Such an academic tome is less likely to have been Tolkien’s source than Bertram Windle’s Life in Early Britain, 1897. This introductory work covers a number of historical periods from the Paleolithic all the way to Anglo-Saxon times. It is an easy read and is crammed with diagrams and pictures, and is certainly much more amenable to children of Tolkien’s then age group. Windle provides the same information from Rhys’s Celtic Britain regarding primitive language:

“Professor Rhys mentions that Cormac ‘records two of the Ivernian* words known to him, namely fern, anything good, and ond a stone.’ ”.
 
– Life in Early Britain, Chapter III – pg. 64, B. Windle, 1897









At age 8, Tolkien attended King Edward’s Grammar School from whose library Windle’s book was possibly loaned. A couple of years later (though it might have been earlier, as records are scant) the Tolkien boys through their mother became acquainted with the priest Father Francis Morgan, who was eventually to become a guardian. Morgan was a member of the Birmingham Oratory under Cardinal Newman** who was hugely influential in converting Bertram Windle (a then fellow Birmingham resident) from an Anglican to a Catholic. A young*** Tolkien might have encountered a donated copy of Windle’s book at the Oratory Library, or perhaps even Father Morgan had one in his personal collection. John Garth on pg. 196 of Tolkien’s Worlds: The Places That Inspired the Writer’s Imagination, concludes of Life in Early Britain: “Tolkien surely knew his work”, but no specifics are given.



* Pre-Celtic Irish people from the Neolithic Age.

** The Internet Archive.org website displays Windle’s copy (inscribed Ex Libris Bertram. C.A Windle) of Eight Lectures on the Position of Catholics in England, 1890 by Cardinal Newman.

*** One must remember that “about 8” is imprecise – as would be expected in a recollection of memories some 70 years later.

Hello Silky Gooseness

Some more information in this post on Neolithic ‘burrows’ might help dispel reservations!




…continued from my previous post


Iberian Jack

“This is all very well and good”, I can imagine Plaza readers exclaim. 


“We know Tolkien was acquainted with Professor Rhys, and we know he was interested in both the history and pre-history of England, but a little more evidence would help to make the arguments more convincing.”

Sadly, definitive proof is lacking. The evidence that Tolkien in his youth read Bertram Windle’s Life in Early Britain is circumstantial - but nevertheless compelling. This advertised “little book”, tailored to the young, provided:

“… a brief but clear account of the different races which inhabited this country in prehistoric and early historic times, …”.

– Life in Early Britain, Preface – pg. vii, B. Windle, 1897  

However, from reading it, it was not just knowledge of the primitive word ‘ond’ for ‘stone’ which he retained. Surely it also registered that it came from primitive folk who Windle said:

“… are variously spoken of as Iberians, Ivernians or Euskarians*, and they are believed to have been closely related ethnologically with the Basques of Spain and France, whose remarkable language may be the lineal descendant of the otherwise wholly, or almost wholly, lost tongue of the Neolithic inhabitants of Britain.”

– Life in Early Britain, Chapter I – pg. 9, B. Windle, 1897   (my underlined emphasis)

Such views were reinforced by the documented account of Tacitus** – a Roman historian:

“Tacitus, in speaking of the characters of the inhabitants of Britain, says of the Silures, whom we may take to represent the Neolithic folk : ‘The high complexion of the Silures, their usually curly hair, and the fact that Spain is the opposite shore to them, are evidences that Iberians at some earlier time crossed over and occupied these parts.’ ”.

– Life in Early Britain, Chapter III – pg. 65, B. Windle, 1897   (my underlined emphasis)

For us it supremely interesting that Windle related:

“… the Neolithic people in some instances lived in caves, … but their most characteristic dwellings are those known as pit dwellings …”;

– Life in Early Britain, Chapter III – pgs. 36-37, B. Windle, 1897   (my underlined emphasis)

how:

“Groups of these pits are found on the tops or sides of hills ...”;

– Life in Early Britain, Chapter III – pg. 38, B. Windle, 1897   (my underlined emphasis)
and that:

“Each pit or group of pits had a circular shaft by which it was entered, …”.

– Life in Early Britain, Chapter III – pg. 37, B. Windle, 1897   (my underlined emphasis)

So perhaps from a leaf-mould of memories formed as a child and welling up as an adult – we can glean the folklore/scientific/historical origins of ‘Hobbit’ heritage, and to boot – the archaeological foundations of Bilbo’s very curious home!










… to be continued




* Tolkien certainly knew of this ethnic group (through his use of ‘Euskadi’ - the Basque country in northern Spain) and also, it can be surmised, various periods of ancestral history. Dated to the 1920’s there exists a brief beginning to a story involving Tom Bombadil:

“It happened in the days of King Bonhedig, before the wild men came hither out of Ond, or the dark men out of Euskadi, or the fair haired warriors with long iron swords across the narrow water; in fact before any one ever mentioned in fantastic history or sober legend had yet arrived in Britain …”.
- The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, Tom Bombadil: A Prose Fragment - pg. 277, Edited by C. Scull & W. Hammond, 2014 (my underlined emphasis)

** Tolkien certainly knew of Tacitus. He is mentioned in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Notes to Line 109, J.R.R. Tolkien & E.V. Gordon, 1925.

… continued from my previous post


What is really intriguing in all of this is how some of the ‘little folk’ of Cornwall and Devon (the English south-west) also lived in holes below ground and were called ‘Spriggans’. For us, it is significant that:

“[They] are found … about … burrows …” and were “… remarkably thievish …” while having “the charge of buried treasure, …”.

– The English Dialect Dictionary, Volume V – pg. 690, J. Wright, 1905

Hmm … such details tie in remarkably well with our hobbit hero!

Anyhow, these murky little beings of local folklore are defined by Tolkien’s former tutor in his dialectal dictionary as: 

“ ‘Spriggan’ : “A fairy, sprite, a goblin; …”.

– The English Dialect Dictionary, Volume V – pg. 690, J. Wright, 1905










Such a definition ties in quite well with that given earlier for a ‘Hob’ – another ‘sprite’ or ‘hobgoblin’. In addition, one cannot help but notice ‘Spriggans’ and ‘Spriggins’ are remarkably similar, both construction-wise and phonetically. Leaving one to wonder if they shared a common etymological and linguistic origin. Though once again I have no proof – maybe Tolkien wondered that too?

Then was Jack ‘Spriggins’ of Beanstalk fame really a little ‘Iberian man’ who had, over the ages, become confused as a Hob (a sprite or English goblin)? Were the taller Celtic race ultimately the source of the many giants Jack overcame? Is this how Tolkien satisfied an inner urge to unravel the history behind a fairy tale? Had he purposely picked on England’s most famous folklore character?

Who knows what the passage of time had done in mutating names? But if the answers to all those questions asked in the previous paragraph are ‘yes’, Tolkien could easily live with our hobbit Mr Baggins having Iberian ancestry.

Yes, ‘Bilbo’ - plucked from Match me in London - with such a Spanish (esp. Basque) sounding name could still be English and aboriginal. Indeed, to our Professor, ‘Bilbo Baggins’ was as English as an Englishman could possibly be!

Hi Priya, sorry I hadn't replied in here. Interesting these new entries since my last post in June. I doesn't hear to me that Bag End or Baggins sounds similar. I make always from Baggins, Beh-gins in speaking the name. Bag End are two separate words.

In the Paleolithic Britain was connected with the main land of Europe, forming one continent. By the Neolithic there was the northsea and Britain an island. If you speak of certain very old 'use' of language, best is to look at the eastern areas along the British coast bordering the northsea and across it the westcoast of the Netherlands, and bit of Germany. To the extentricities spoken in the tongues of today. You can find it in names of towns, hills and rivers.

Curious that little stone man, climbing out of the stone.

“… are variously spoken of as Iberians, Ivernians or Euskarians*, and they are believed to have been closely related ethnologically with the Basques of Spain and France, whose remarkable language may be the lineal descendant of the otherwise wholly, or almost wholly, lost tongue of the Neolithic inhabitants of Britain.”

– Life in Early Britain, Chapter I – pg. 9, B. Windle, 1897 (my underlined emphasis)

Ah yes that is what I always surmised since I wrote my small tale of Jaeggin in the Mesolithic Doggerland.

Hello Aiks

Bag End are two separate words.

I sympathize with how you feel about ‘Baggins’ and ‘Bag End’.

Bag End was also written as Bag-End several times in The Hobbit. So it was not always two separate words. The presence of a hyphen is sometimes used in the English language to denote that the combination words can be pronounced in quick succession - almost as one word.

Talking of pronunciation - that is often key. The greatest phonetic dissimilarity between Baggins and Bag End is the harshness imposed by the letter ‘d’. But that harshness is dependent on dialect.

We know Tolkien had a particular interest in Northern English dialects, having taught at The University of Leeds and also having contributed to Walter Haigh’s A New Glossary of the Huddersfield District, and all that before writing The Hobbit.

From Google AI:

“In many Northern English dialects, the 'd' sound is often dropped when it follows an 'n', particularly at the end of a word or before a consonant. This phenomenon is known as elision. 
Common examples include:

* And: Pronounced as 'an', which is a very common feature of northern accents.
* Hand: Pronounced more like 'han'.
* Stand: Pronounced more like 'stan'.
* Sandwich: Often pronounced as 'samwich' or 'sanwich'.
* Handkerchief: Can be pronounced without the 'd' sound. 

This pronunciation difference is one of the many distinctive features that differentiate Northern accents from Standard Southern British English and Received Pronunciation.”

So I think it really boils down to how you want to say Baggins and Bag-End. If you tried pronouncing them as a Northern English person, and read them both in succession quickly - they might sound pretty much the same!


In any case - sadly I’ve reached the end of my little investigation into the origins of ‘Bilbo’ and ‘Hobbits’. I do hope you’ve enjoyed the research. If it is correct, then there was a lot more to these two words than is currently known. Tolkien gave them ties to our world’s factual migratory history, surviving English period figures as well as fairy tales - than we previously knew. I think it’s absolutely incredible how coherently and humorously he tied all these aspects together to depict an age “long ago in the quiet of the world”!